In the setting of a theatre, after the screening of the film ‘Lunàdigas, or concerning childfree women’, a group of women from different geographies find themselves sharing their personal stories, opening up a debate on the multiple ways of acting motherhood.

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LARA: «When Susi invited me to participate to this project, Lunàdigas, my first thought was: “Gosh, such a private thing! For us with Savoy traditions, exposing ourselves recounting something so private is hard. Then I gave it a try, because I thought: “When I was a child, when I was a young girl, I would have wanted to listen to stories, and I would have wanted to listen to women recounting why they didn’t have children.”
And while thinking about this, I wondered: “What did I wish for?”
It came to my mind… My name is Lara, my mom gave me this name because she loved Doctor Zhivago, I was born in May of 1968, so I thought I could take from my basement my old notebook where I would write Doctor Zhivago’s “Lara’s theme”, as in Italy it was a hit at that time. I tried to find my wish again and I asked myself: “When I was a child, what did I wish for?” So, I would like to read you, I was very concise as a child, a few lines entitled: ‘Essay: When I’ll grow up’ My teacher’s rates would range from “good” to “bad”, well… I wrote: “When I’ll grow up, I want to get married and have many children even if I already know they will make me a little angry, only sometimes, however. I would like to have a big house, where we can all live and love each other. On a van, I would like to travel a lot and discover the world and then, one day, come back home.” This was my essay.
Today, probably, I belong to that category of people who have travelled the world, but I am not married, and I don’t have children. So, I wondered: “What happened over these 40 years?” Now I am 46… And I have tried to remember some moments of my life that I want to recount and share with you today. One is the moment I felt that this was not my wish. I had, around me, in my family, in my school, in my environment, only married women, who were all mothers. At that time, we would watch a lot of TV, so I would watch series such as Eight is Enough, thus the van, or The McKenzie Family, where they had many children, but later on, I discovered that the wish I had was something that sociologists call: “socially constructed wish”. I didn’t have any other women to look up to, other non-mother women, so, while forming my identity, when I was a teenager, I would wonder: “Who am I? Who do I like?”. I tried to make my life journey as much faithful as possible to the person I was. I didn’t have children because I didn’t wish to have children. Moreover, during my journey it has been really important, at some point, getting to know some female friends, the Badhole Video, who have played a huge role in forming my identity, with whom we try to recount stories of women that weren’t recounted, I mean, I found out there were many invisible things that wouldn’t be recounted. Still today I wonder why. So, trying to tell you who I am, one other thing I had to demolish because it was socially constructed is that I didn’t wish to meet my Prince Charming. If at all, my wish has always been to meet my princess! Not necessarily a pink one, but still a princess. This was the only clear thing in my wish. In my opinion, this aspect is very important in our life. So… When I was little, nobody would tell me neither this fairy tale, there was no such thing as princesses who loved princesses. However, I’m still wondering why. This is my personal story that I wanted to share with you all, about my important self-rediscovery journey starting from my ‘Lara’s essays’ notebook.»

FRANCESCA: «So, I didn’t study, I didn’t prepare for this, unlike Lara who did well, and, most of all, I didn’t reflect. But it happens. I haven’t reflected before coming here. However, maybe I belong to that group of women who… Until recently I lived with three cats and I’m crazy about my nephews, it’s beautiful. And I love travelling. However, I have never thought this made me weird. I have no children. Not because I didn’t want them. Maybe I haven’t even wondered why… And, maybe, that’s the point! I have never wondered why I don’t have children. I love children, I love young people, I love adults as well… It happened! When I was a child, I would write essays too, my wish wasn’t to have children, I have always wished to travel, and I did so. I have always wished to do theater, and I did so. And everything is fine! That’s all! This is a part of my story. However, I want to add that I grew up in a very big family, my mother is amazing, and she took care of us, but she has also struggled a lot, because she has been alone for long periods, and I have many brothers and sisters. Some of my sisters do have children, some brothers do, and some brothers don’t, it’s a bit… I don’t know… I don’t even think that this has had an effect on the situations in my life. Because for me the fact of not being a mother is the result of opportunities that happened, not that I lost.»
LARA: «In my family, the unmarried great-aunt was a bit of a loser! I mean, the general thought was: “She’s lonely, with no husband, with no children…” She was considered a bit shady, I must say.»
FRANCESCA: «Now the times have changed and unmarried great-aunts are so cool! Nephews and nieces always want to spend time with her! And when they grow up and turn into teenagers they even start fantasizing and I let them do that… Well, anyway… It helps creating this character, doesn’t it?»
MARTA: «Can I ask you something, Francesca?»
FRANCESCA: «Yes.»
MARTA: «Has your non-wish always been steady? It’s not that it… Over the years? Or there have been modifications, events, changes?»
FRANCESCA: «So, this is true, because, however, also for many friends of mine this sense and this wish of maternity was very deep, and some of them fulfilled it, some of them didn’t and I know, therefore I respect it, that for many women it’s been a problem, or rather the problem. This isn’t something that I’ve experienced first-hand, but I didn’t feel different because of this. It has always been… I never wanted to have a child alone, at most, I would have wanted a child with a partner. Probably, I would have had this chance only once in my life, I think, but I felt it was not the right time. After that, nothing more. However, I have never grieved over it. By saying this, I don’t mean that this is a merit or a demerit because I respect all the different perceptions, which characterize each of us.»

SARA: «I am from Egypt; I have been in Italy for 27 years and in our culture making children is natural. There’s no: “I wish” or “I don’t wish”, “I decide” or “I don’t decide” You get married, and you know that, after your wedding, the most natural thing is having children. In my time, people would have children immediately and if a woman waited more than a year before getting pregnant the families would get a bit anxious and also annoying, intervening in the couple’s life and asking: “Why? What happened?”, “Why didn’t you go to the doctor? We need to know why you are so late”, “We want grandchildren”…»
STELLA «It is like that here as well!»
SARA: «Anyway, it is not a decision but a natural thing. You don’t decide to have children. You wait, because after marriage you know it’s natural to have children. After all these years, things have changed also in my country, you still can’t choose to have children or not, but you can postpone it a bit, for example for academic purposes, for a better life, or because you have different expectations, but I have never heard of married women who decided not to have children. If a woman is not married, she can’t have children. So, it is not a decision, it’s just because if you’re not married you can’t! That’s the difference. Since I come from this culture, I got married and, 15 days after marriage, I got pregnant. It is natural for me, I didn’t wonder: “What do I do? I’m here, foreigner, without my family, without stability in this society yet, I can’t move through here, I can’t speak Italian…” I didn’t think of all these things because I know that it is natural. I accepted it. I wasn’t worried but I wasn’t very happy either because I didn’t know what fate awaited me, but, for me, it is natural, that’s why I lived it in a good way. I didn’t have problems, anxiety or worries. I didn’t have a house yet, my husband’s family was hosting me, they came here before him. I didn’t know how much raising children costed, I didn’t even know the currency or the cost of life here in Italy. That’s why I didn’t even wonder if I could afford milk for my children, if I would have had breast milk or not! It was natural for me, that’s why it’s been so easy for me although I faced many problems. After I had my daughter, I didn’t even know how to nourish her, I thought that if I didn’t have breast milk, I could have given her bottled milk. I never went to the pediatrician because I thought that everything needed to be natural. I wasn’t used to thinking: “I must go to the doctor, to the pediatrician…” and so on. Maybe it was the same in Egypt, but since I was the youngest in my family, I didn’t learn how to raise a child. Therefore, I didn’t know how to take care of a child. Nobody had taught me that. So, after six months of feeding my daughter with bottled milk she had grown, she had become ‘chubby’, beautiful! Everyone asked: “What are you feeding her?”, “Nothing, just bottled milk!” Then, one day, an Italian friend of mine married to an Egyptian man, who’s my husband’s friend, came to see me: “What are you giving to your daughter?”, “Nothing, I give her bottled milk!”, “What? Bottled milk? No! Don’t you go to the doctor?”, “No!” So, she said,” I must take you to the pediatrician” She took me to the pediatrician, and I got worried, because only there I understood that I was doing things badly, that I wasn’t raising my daughter as I should, because I wasn’t feeding her with mushes, blends, baby food… So, I decided to fill my house with all these baby things to make up for all those months that I didn’t give her baby food. So, after doing things badly, I would have started doing them right. Day after day, my daughter was getting ‘chubbier’, because I was giving her a so much! She’s grown up well, even if she’s still a bit chubbier than her sisters! She’s grown up very well. With the second one, I had already learned. I also tried to help other women, since they trusted me even before I took the mediation course. They would say: “I want to go to the gynaecologist, the pediatrician…”so I would accompany them, so that they wouldn’t experience what I did. Yes, I lived it well, but let’s say, I got very scared after a while, because I had not followed all the directions that every mom should be following in Italy. I had my second daughter by choice, so that the first one wouldn’t be alone. She would run through the street to look for children to play with and their moms would get scared, take their children and go away. I felt very bad for this, because I wanted my daughter to socialize, to play with other children. So, I thought: “I need to have another son or daughter!” As a child I wanted to have two children: a son and a daughter. However, it didn’t happen. The second one is a daughter too. I was happy, everything was fine. But in our culture males are important. I needed to have a son. Yeah! Because we all have rights in family and inheritance as well, and without males, inheritance can be more complicated. Every relative can be an heir if the family has some goods. So I said: “A male is important for our society, I better have a son”. I had my third daughter by choice. Oh, gosh! Three is more than enough! I was happy, I managed to organize my time, with the collaborations that I do for some projects I could manage my family, my job, I could decide at what time to work, so it was very good for me. But then I got pregnant by mistake! Everyone says mistakes don’t exist. Yes, they do! If you use something and it doesn’t work, they exist! I got pregnant for the fourth time and that time was a real tragedy. I cried a lot because I had realized that it was a hard time. I couldn’t manage my life the way I did before. I was alone, without my family, because my husband’s family was there, his brothers with their wives, they live far away, but it’s not like having your own family. So I felt lonely here for the first time. I cried a lot. But I couldn’t have an abortion because I believe and know that my faith is against abortion. So I decided to continue the pregnancy. I had my fourth daughter. Another girl! I cried so much because after all that I didn’t have a boy. My husband would say: “Why are you crying? We have four beautiful children! I am happy.” Usually, it’s the man who wants a son. But that wish was mine, not his. So, he comforted me so much on my fate of having four daughters. He was very happy, and this helped me in accepting it. And now, for me, the youngest is the dearest, the most close and affectionate. I don’t want to say she’s the smartest, but she’s got something special! She’s got something special, that’s why I love her so much. I love each of them. For me, maternity is something that I didn’t decide, that’s true, but it is very beautiful.»

RENATA: «I would like to be…I say this with admiration… Really… as light-hearted, I mean it in a good way, as you both have been when talking about motherhood. Because I’m still lacking something, it is a deep wound. One of the last nights, when I was 28, that I was assisting my dying father I promised myself I would never have a child because I didn’t want them to suffer like that. At that time, I had a partner, a man, with whom we were thinking and planning to have a child. A few months after this bereavement, that man broke up with me, he left me and disappeared. It was one more trauma for me, because with him I really felt that that project was possible.
Fortunately, by chance, but as you said “chance doesn’t exist” I got to know theater, or rather, I got to know a group of people, among which a person who’s deeply passionate about theater, I believe she’s the essence of what theater means to me, of what it means to be a woman within theater, both her mind and heart are filled with fervour and passion, and this group of people, with whom, in Bologna, we created a research theater company named Laboratorio Teatro 4, theater and these relationships have saved my mind and my life, for sure. However, I keep feeling that I’m lacking something. I’ve been many years on my own, without a man not lonely but, because actually those years were full of encounters and relations, I left my steady job in the state to dive into this theater adventure, so humane and intense. At that time, belonging to the group meant not only sharing the art, but it also meant sharing our lives, our ideas, our feelings, our paths, our choices, even the radical ones. Then, as it usually happens after many years together, also because someone made choices, children, and so on, the group broke up. With some of them, obviously, there is still a very deep friendship and sisterhood. During the pregnancy of a friend of mine I wouldn’t even go to visit her, because the thought of never having that belly, of never living that fundamental and natural transformation, because I come from a peasant family where it was natural to have children. So, it was very hard, existentially.
Obviously, there another Renata thinking: “I break the family belief system, I can’t live the same life as my mom even if I loved her, my parents were labourers so I couldn’t study, but I wanted to”, so, obviously, you can’t say: “I just wanted to have a child”, it’s a mix of different factors. That being a natural thing you were talking about, I felt I was, not socially, but existentially different. I still feel like that. It is a different existential condition, I don’t know if it is better or worse, but it is different. Over the years, my gynaecologist would tell me: “Don’t you worry! You were meant for having children!” so I couldn’t even say that I had physiological problems. Undoubtedly, breaking up with the man with whom I imagined, I dreamed, I thought I would have had a child… And for six or seven years I haven’t had relationships I would really have invested in, and with the idea, as she was saying, that you must do it as a couple. You can split up, many things can happen, but my parents are a couple, there’s three of us, and they really loved each other, so… I didn’t feel like doing that. I could have done it alone like many friends of mine did and I respect everybody’s choices, as you were saying, of course, not because I thought I wasn’t strong enough to raise them alone, since in my family women are tough, labourers, so I wasn’t worried about it, I was worried about depriving… I mean, having a child who would have had no one but me, I would have wanted him or her to have two role models so that they could choose who to stay with in case of separation, as it can happen in life. But putting my child in that precondition was something I didn’t want to do. I don’t know if in my heart, maybe, I didn’t want children. I’ve asked myself this, but I still can’t answer to it. However, my biological time is now over, of course. I don’t want, as I didn’t back then, my body to undergo a series of situations just to be able to have a child at 60 only because I’m lacking this. I don’t feel like doing it, it’d mean leaving them orphan very early, and why would I inflict them that pain if, at that time, I said: “I won’t have children because I don’t want them to suffer like that”? It is a stark contradiction. However, until I thought I could have children I was pretty calm and confident that sooner or later, in a natural way, I would have had children. The thing I thought about a lot two summers ago when my mom died, and this was another trauma for me, was that, in that moment in my life, when my father was dying, my partner was leaving me, I got to know theater, the second show we put on with that group was dedicated to Sylvia Plath. It was an adaptation of her radio drama, “Three Women” and I portrayed the voice of children. But I haven’t had them. That’s it for now.»

ZITA: «When I was a child, I wanted to be a mom. I always thought: “When I’ll grow up, I want to become a mom, immediately.” At 20 I met the love of my life and with him I have had three children. At 23 I had all three of them. None were planned, but all were desired and loved so much. When I found out I was pregnant I was very happy. Then, when I got pregnant with my third daughter, he went to my mom and told her: “Your daughter won’t stop, she’s pregnant again!” while smiling. I was very happy because I wanted to have many children. My dream was having many children. I managed, with these three children, to keep… Because I’m a mother who… I always say that I’m not very “typical” as a mother because I don’t like cooking, I don’t like taking care of my house, I mean, I do take care of my house, but for me it’s impossible to stay home being a housewife, I could never! So, instead, my children cook for me. Yeah! I was lucky to have a husband who cooks for me, boyfriends who cooked for me, that’s what happened! Ten years after having my three children, I had the fourth. I stopped there, because life is hard. For 15 years I have been alone with my children. Never, not even a single moment, I’ve thought: “Why did I make them?” Instead, it was natural for me, as she was saying, getting pregnant. I’ve never thought: “Will it be hard?”, “Will I have children or not?”, “What will I do?”, “How?” Never. Because I believe that things happen, and you must succeed in living what you’re meant to. I have always tried to do my best to give my best to my children, as I’m still doing. I get emotional! I think having a baby bump, the baby, is wonderful! I just can’t sit next to a woman with a baby bump without touching it, because it comes natural to me touching it and kissing it since I consider it a very special and sacred moment having a baby inside of you who’s growing, moving… It’s a wonderful experience! Anyways, I have always respected other people’s choices too. If a woman says: “I don’t want to have children”, I find it beautiful. If you don’t want to, don’t do it! And if you want to, try to do it! Even if you haven’t found your true love or you’re waiting for Mr Right. “Mr Right” is the one who comes unexpectedly! Take him! Have a child with him! That’s the way I have always seen it. At 43 I became a grandmother which has been even better because being in the delivery room and seeing your daughter giving birth is really touching! Now I have five grandchildren. It’s so beautiful! It’s very beautiful and I’m atypical as a grandma as well, because my grandchildren don’t do their homework when they’re with me, I don’t cook for them either, we eat improvised plates, we go and buy food, that’s that. And when they’re with me they feel like they’re on vacation. They say: “When can we come over on vacation, ‘vava’?” ‘Vava’ means ‘grandma’, because it means running through the park, jumping and having fun. I’m still like this. And I hope to go even further, because I would like to become great-grandma. My mom is great-great-grandmother, so I think I’ll get there too. I’m very happy to be a mom, even if I have faced many difficulties because having four children is hard. When you’re alone, they always and only call you for everything. But it is worth it, my dream came true and I’m always optimistic when facing difficulties. I think that’s what being a mom is like. Being a mom means that, even in difficult times when you don’t know what to expect, you always manage to find a way to get out of that difficulty.»

FRANCESCA: «Can I tell you something?»
ZITA: «Yes.»
FRANCESCA: «I think that you’re an optimist person, regardless of being a mom, you’re an optimist mom! Because there are also moms who are not like this. Something you said has touched me: “Because it’s natural”. You too said it’s natural I think that it is natural being a mom and it is natural not being a mom too. Being a mom is more frequent and, maybe, not being a mom is less frequent, but not being a mom is natural too, there’s many Lunàdigas women in nature! I don’t know. “Is it natural”? Then we can say that the same applies to: “It is natural to love the opposite sex”. I don’t want to open another conversation, but loving the same sex is natural too! Nature is very diverse, some situations are just more frequent but, in my opinion, everything is natural, it is natural being a mother and it is natural not being a mother. It is natural to suffer because you haven’t become a mother and it’s also natural not to suffer, or to suffer because you became a mom. Perhaps, instead, I am very happy because here I see two amazing and beautiful mothers, Zita and… What’s your name again? Zita and Sara. Because your stories are beautiful, and rich. But in your stories, in my opinion, having become a mother is not the result of a natural process but more of a cultural process that, fortunately, you like! That you did well with and that you chose… Maybe. I’m not trying to be a know-it-all, but I’m here to reflect on this, and I hear many different stories, and when people say “it’s natural” it always puzzles me! Instead, I wonder why… This is something I’ve asked myself, not for myself, but generally speaking: “Why do people bring children into the world?” This is really a question that I’ve asked myself. Why are there some women and, maybe, also men, but I haven’t verified this, I haven’t looked this up, who really feel the need to have children? Some women really struggle to have children, because of physiological problems, for example, or because of cultural or social problems that prevent them to have children, so they need to do very weird things… So, I wonder “why?”. And then I thought… I’ve been asking myself this for a very long time, for example when some of my peers, a few years ago wanted to have children, but, for example, being lesbian couples they had difficulties with it and one of them would go crazy and wanted to have children at all costs and I thought: “Damn, is it worth it suffering and going against the world, against our society to have a child? How can I help her in this? I don’t get her despair.” So, I thought about it so much. And then, eventually, I didn’t get to a single answer. I think there are a thousand reasons why some of us women deeply desire to have children and that it depends on our age too. Sometimes it happens spontaneously and easily, like when you’re young, the same applies to love, when you fall in love as an adult it is much rarer and complex, and you are also more cautious. And the same, maybe, applies to a woman’s maternity, when an adult woman decides to have a child. I don’t know, for instance, this is a question I would broaden: do people want a child because they want to leave something or because they want to recount something? Maybe it’s this… They would like, as I say, to recount a story? They would like to carry on their own story? That someone could take their story, at least some pieces of it, and continue it? Because, for example, this is something I wish, to leave pieces of my story, but I am leaving them here and there. If it’s to young people, even better, because I feel like I can give something to them, while I still want to learn a lot from people who are older than me.»

MERCEDES: «First of all, I believe that there are many ways to be in this world and that motherhood is either something instinctive or something very intellectualized, because someone who says: “I chose not to be a mother, not to have a child” is someone who has somehow intellectualized this.
I want to tell you my story because, influenced by my traditional family, I expected to have children one day, I really liked that idea. I was educated in a convent school, and I remember that the nuns would instill this too. When you finished secondary school, before going to university, we would attend school for 10 years and then immediately go to university, when leaving secondary school, we already had a dowry for the baby, thus bed sheets, baby clothes and so on. It was all an illusion. The baby. If you had a boyfriend, that illusion was even greater, you would imagine getting married… I was in love with a boy educated by Jesuits as well, so we would fantasize about it all, but then nothing happened.
What happened through the years, after university? I met an Italian man. We both worked in politics, and we decided to move in together. My mother couldn’t accept that we lived together, so we decided, as I’m Peruvian, to move to Chile: Allende, The Popular Unity… there was such a turmoil! At that point, we had been living together for a year. Back then, every girl who lived in Chile wasn’t thinking about children! I was wondering: “Why aren’t they making children?”. After the coup d’etat, we came back here, in Italy, and later we moved to Central America, but I wasn’t getting pregnant. I would think that was weird and ask my husband: “Why? Maybe you’re sick? We don’t do it right?” and he, Italian, Piedmontese, chill, methodical, would answer me: “Don’t worry, it is what it is! Maybe it’s not meant to be!” to which I would answer: “Why? I would like to have a child. Every woman I see has a child! It is so beautiful!” So, probably, he saw in me a bit of sadness, a bit of nostalgia for the child so he said: “Listen, if you are not getting pregnant, we can adopt a child.” We were in El Salvador back then. There was a lot of poverty, lots of children. We would see children begging, they were so little. “We can adopt a child…” so he gave me this idea of experiencing anyway my maternal instinct through adoption. We did adopt a child, a beautiful child. Beautiful. A child whose parents were hiding on the mountains, because they were guerrilla fighters. The child had been left with his grandma who was very sick, so some nuns I knew contacted me: “Mercedes there’s this child, do you want him? “Immediately! I talked with my husband and he said yes. So, we adopted him. Anyway, I underwent some treatments, but my husband would say: “If it didn’t happen, there must be a reason!” Then we adopted this child and raised him, we came here, in Italy, and my mother-in-law thought… She said: “Okay”, she accepted it, she knew he was adopted. Later, when I forgot about it, when my son, Paolo, was 7 or 8, I got pregnant! And I accepted to have that child. I was very happy, I thought: “This must be a gift of nature, “because I thought I would never have children! However, I have never had an absolute desire for maternity. I would say “If it happens, it happens”, it was more something I wanted, my husband would say: “If you don’t get pregnant, that’s fine! We’ll go on. There must be a reason why.” So, this is what I wanted to say about adoption. I do think that a woman can still exercise her maternal instinct, by adopting a child. Also, it is so beautiful. Because we shouldn’t be necessarily thinking: “My child is mine!”, being possessive is bad. Another thing I’ve noticed is that some people make children just to solve their personal problems. So, having children also means developing the ability to raise them, which, in my opinion, is a beautiful thing. However, I believe… Nowadays, for example, it’s beautiful! There are many same-sex couples who have children. I am open to this! There are different ways to be in this world! And also, to fulfill this instinct, this desire.»
LARA: «We Badhole usually make this joke when thinking about being children: “What’s worse than having a mother? Having two mothers!” I mean, ironically… You know… We say it to emphatically defuse what nowadays, in Italy, is very emphasised: the image of a mom who must sacrifice, this huge emphasis… I agree, especially because of my job. I studied as a social worker and sociologist too. I work in social services where a very important concept is that of ‘social maternity’. I mean, I see many moms who struggle, who are lonely, whose social and family situations don’t help them in being moms. So, there’s a need for aunts, for foster-moms, I think there’s a need for a concept, not much examined yet, but very important, because at least in my opinion, it is a big form of love, which is precisely social motherhood. You didn’t give birth to that child, he’s not biologically yours, but you can really offer your maternal side to somebody else, and you can also fix and give love to your maternal instinct. I see this in my job and it’s wonderful! And it’s also very powerful. It’s a side that we as women, I agree with what you said, Francesca, we can feel we have and exercise even without a biological child. As in your experience, so beautiful.»

MARTA: «I’m a non-natural mother too. And now I’m also a part-time mother, because I adopted a child and then I separated. The process, actually… At 26, I had a strong desire for motherhood. I believe it wasn’t strictly a desire for motherhood, but more something about me, of strongly wanting everything. But then, the man I met was sterile, we found out about his sterility after a while, and I immediately started saying: “I want, want, want a child!” So, after a year and a half, we adopted our son. And I realized that my relationship with this maternity desire was hiding a path of self-awareness that I’m still paying for. Because what I thought was natural was actually a total unawareness of who I was and of what I really wanted. A year after adopting my son, I started feeling a deep “connection” with his birth mother, meaning a constant thought towards the woman who gave birth to him. I remember that the day Marco arrived, my sister had only recently given birth to her son and I was at a theater seminar. At evening, my mother phoned me and told me: “Arianna just went into labour, come to Genoa, hurry!” I went there by train and even if I was ok about it, I cried the whole time. When I arrived in Genoa, I was devastated. But I couldn’t understand why. It was the exact time my son Marco was born. I got to know this 20 days later, they phoned me and said: “There’s a child, do you want him?” So, I felt the pain of this woman who, anyway… who was giving birth to her child and leaving him. So, I started writing, it already was my profession, and while writing the story of a woman who abandoned her child, I put myself in her shoes. By writing, I gave birth with her too, I made her young, unaware, completely stray, I haven’t investigated on the underlying reasons behind this, but I realized that there was… I mean, I was her! Me with my strong desire for motherhood, I was her, who was abandoning her child: there was no division. However, motherhood had allowed me for the first time to really write a novel, thanks to my child’s timetable, who would go to kindergarten for three hours in the morning, and then would sleep for two hours… That timetable was perfect. For six months I allowed myself to do what I really wanted… I mean, motherhood later allowed me, actually, to transform and really build my profession. Then I realized, after the book came out, that many mothers were telling me: “You know, after all Anna’s character is not that mean” because there had been also many harsh critics about this story of a woman abandoning her son, a young woman, who’s never been raped, who’s not a misfit, who’s not hurt. I mean, how can you abandon your child? Still, many women were saying: “Actually, some things that Anna felt, like refusing her child, I’ve felt them too after giving birth, even without abandoning my child” So, this… I did too! Even if I adopted a child and I had desired him so much, then it’s been really hard for me. It hasn’t been that good, although it forced me, and still forces me, to reflect on myself and my responsibilities and to do a self-awareness path to better understand and discover who I am. And then, not even a year ago, I separated from my partner so now I can again have a child. When I separated, I thought, and I know it is a terrible thought, because I love my son, but I thought: “If I didn’t have Marco, now I would be free. “I really felt that I had built a trap for myself. At the same time, I am here for him. Anyways, I know… what it means to live this situation. I want to say one last thing: as I’m more and more aware of myself, some time ago I went to a person who does maps of needs with tarot cards. At some point, there’s a structure where each part of your life corresponds to a card, for example work, love, the need for life, what sustains you… And she pulled out the ‘nest’ card, that is maternity, and said: “You are a mother! You are a great mother!” because there was the moon, the femininity card: “Why do you keep wondering if it’s right that you didn’t have your own children, that your son is not biological… You do have a son! Accept this once and for all. Because you are a mother.” And that day I put my mind at ease. Now I don’t know what else will happen in my life, but I know that I am a mother.»

ANTONELLA: «I’d like to tell you a little anecdote happened this year in November, if I’m not mistaken, yes, it was in November, for the Festival of Lights celebrated in Turin on the Po River. It recalls an Indian festival. Usually, I take my girls to it, my Indian dance students, to perform and do Indian dances, indeed. On that occasion, there were some people I know, among which a Yoga student who was there with her daughter, who, after my girls’ performance, told her mom: “Mom, I’m sure Antonella’s house is very big!” and her mom asked her: “Why, Nina?” and she said: “Because she’s got all these daughters!” Then Camilla, her mom, told me this and it was a nice moment because I had already thought about it a few times, about the way children, the voice of truth, perceive you. Definitely, even if partially, since you can’t always be there with them at any time, I think that students, whether it is from Francesca’s school or dance students, for people that somehow, as teachers, accompany them through their life paths, they are like their own children. Well, this did me good, because I have never given birth, I have never had biological children. Now I’m experiencing something very powerful which happened unexpectedly, I didn’t look for it, because I’m taking into custody a young girl who’s already grown, therefore someone tells me: “You didn’t give birth to her, she’s already 11, she’s even pretty, so…”»
TESTIMONE: «But she’s there.»
ANTONELLA: «But she’s there! She does! And I must say, well, it was a strong moment, because I was asked this, I didn’t ask for this, I have never desired a custody. I have never refused maternity, I just never got pregnant… That’s that. I haven’t even had time to think about it due to my busy life. I travel a lot, so sometimes I would make this joke: “If I had a child, I would forget them in the shopping cart, or in the backstage!” But, indeed, when I was asked this, I literally stopped and said: “I don’t know!” “What do I do now? Do I say yes or no?” This for me has meant, first of all, asking myself: “How much time do I have for her? In which way?” So, I was very honest when I said: “Now I say yes as the alternative for this little girl is tragic” because otherwise she would have ended in a group home and there were no alternatives at that moment, but I said precisely: My life is very fulfilling, so I feel that in case I had to give it up I would mess up with the little girl because… because that’s how it is. So, if it’s possible to manage it all together, I say yes. Let’s see if we succeed in this. And from my honesty was born a ‘network’ experience which I find very beautiful, which is, probably, what’s lacking from apparently more common situations, where however people are lonely. Instead, stating: “These are my times. Physical times and emotional energies that I can offer only up to this point.” So, we created a network connecting different people who are supporting this young girl’s path, who’s making great progress, who’s growing well, even though life has been very challenging for her. This network is amazing, this ‘fellowship’ we’re creating, because there’s communication! And I think this is another… At least in my experience as a daughter this was lacking. I mean, my parents didn’t communicate. I think that that’s the worst thing you can experience! While the people around this young girl, who didn’t give birth to her, like me or her other day-time foster mom who covers the hours I’m at work or her dad, we are humbly communicating by asking each other: “Okay, well, what are we doing next? I noticed this thing, today the girl gave me this sign… How can we raise her and support her?” And now we’ve also started talking with her, because at the beginning, on the record too, I would fence the tables: “How can she call me?” I mean, her signs were so clear, she was clear when saying: “I want you to be my mom” and then I needed to explain her: “You already have a mom, anyway, so maybe I can be your auntie?” We’re trying to find names, so she invented my ‘other-mom’. Okay, then I’ll be your ‘other-mom’! And this ‘other-mom’ thing, actually, also came up recently with another non-biological little girl, not very ‘little’ since she’s 20 now, who’s my ex-partner’s daughter, we’ve lived together for 11 years, so when we first met, his daughter was 8, and now she’s 21 and she phones me even if me and him are not together anymore, however we have a great relationship, and she phones me, she tells me their troubles and so on. Recently, this happened: after two hours on the phone because she had argued with her dad, so I had to say things like: “Well, you know, you must consider…” and, at some point, I went a bit too far and I told her: “Listen Agnese, I’m telling you this as a friend, as your older sister!” and she stopped me and said: “No, like a bother-mom!” so this ‘other-mom’ thing came up again! So, I don’t know, maybe we should examine in depth what it means to be a mother, and being infertile as well. I don’t think I’m infertile, I don’t know, I’ve never checked that, but with my sister too we have often talked about infertility. Some people with 5 children, for example, deep down are infertile because they’re not nourishing their children, they have no projects! Instead, I don’t have a biological child, but I don’t feel… I absolutely don’t feel like a ‘dead branch’, quite the opposite! Instead, I feel like a lot of flowers, like a lot of life. The last thing I want to add is this: regarding the baby bump and experiencing that magical moment, I realized thanks to my Indian friend, Vishali, who’s sort of a sister to me, even if we don’t have the same parents, she’s been here in Italy for several years now and she’s gifted me a lot of things over these years, because for the first ultrasound of her first daughter I went with her to the gynaecologist and I cried buckets because, indeed, she allowed me to be with her in that beautiful moment and, during her pregnancy, she informed me about this: “Gosh, being pregnant in Italy feels like being sick!” and I said: “Tell me what is it like to be pregnant in India.” and she said: “For example, among the many things, the Flower Ceremony which we do at the seventh month.” So, we started talking about this seventh-month ceremony: “The female friends surround the future mother, weaving flower garlands, singing, praying, burning incense, and so on, and then they adorn the future mother putting the garlands on her wrists, a crown on her hair, the garland around her neck… and from that moment on her friends, her sisters, the whole group of women starts taking care of the future mom like she’s goddess! Because she is!” I mean, that’s a life! She brings life! So, she stops cooking and washing the dishes of course, and she’s treated like a goddess. So, we said: “Okay, we’re doing it!” We were a bit late because it took us some time so for her first daughter, Elisa, we organized it at 7 months and a half creating this group of female friends, and we did this Flower Ceremony which then became a tradition, so as soon as our Italian friends would get pregnant they would say: “Girls, be ready for the seventh month!” and we are carrying on this tradition which I find amazing and which is an emotional moment where, how can I say it… even if you’re not the pregnant one, you can experience that miracle all together and realize it! I mean, I think that what matters most is realizing this, not if life starts here rather than there. I mean, we’re still celebrating life, aren’t we?»

ANNA: «I must say I’m delighted by all the stories that you have shared in each of which I could find a piece of me. Who knows why… I’m a woman with no children, and I’ve always thought… I was happy to come here because I wanted to share this and to listen to other women’s stories, because I’ve always minded my own business, of course, in a very private way. What struck me and still rings in my ears, is what some of you said: “I have children because it’s natural.” Compared to me too, I’m one of those who didn’t have children, I’ve always been an overthinker, I feel that this naturality of having children, after all, referring back to what you said earlier… What does ‘natural’ mean? And also, an instinct, because without an instinct to make children our species would have become extinct. I believe this is the first thing. I think that I think too much, I always did. Certainly, when I was younger and could still have children, I didn’t think “I want a child” or “I don’t want a child” I’ve never thought about it or said: “No, I’ll never have children!” I never thought that. I was like a ship in the middle of the sea who didn’t know what to do with herself. So, I think I had a very big problem with myself, because I really didn’t know what my position in the world was. For sure, if I don’t have children is because instinctively, I’ve never put myself in the position of having them. At my ripe old age, trying to understand why, I understood many things and also why I didn’t put myself in that position. I would go from very stable love stories that however were too easy for me to control, from which I could leave whenever I wanted, to movie-style love stories with these ‘demons’, men who most of the time were married, who would make me suffer, with whom I would have had 20 children just to stay with them forever! So, I agree with the expedient you were talking about, for filling a gap in me, even if having children was not what I really wanted. So, basically, I’ve been navigating through these waves up to 40 years old, when I met my husband, my current husband. And, then, my life completely changed. But I was 40. I’m not saying that at 40 you can’t have children, which is pretty common nowadays, but he already had three children, so, obviously, we talked about it. There was a problem. I adapted, I must say, to this thing, because in my life I had had the desire to have a child only with one person, and that was my husband, my current husband, because he’s the person I chose to accompany me through life, with whom I’m still happy, and with whom I would have liked to see a baby created by us. We jointly decided not to have children because it would have been complicated. In addition, I developed an illness, which worsened the situation and impeded it all. I haven’t suffered from the fact that I don’t have children. Certainly, however, this left a void within me which is not unfillable, because I have never thought: “I’ll be fulfilled only with a child” I believe there are many other ways to be fulfilled and here I refer to what was said: “You don’t necessarily need to be a biological mother.” I have had the huge opportunity to have my husband’s three children, because thanks to them I have learned a lot of things, mainly. I’m an only child, so these three children at home together with my husband, all these people… Having to share my things… It was terrifying! So, they also taught me that love is not one-sided, but it can be shared among many people without excluding anybody or making anybody feel bad. And they’re still giving me a lot, because… Well, I met them when they were little, now they’ve grown up, and I also found out that I can leave something of me to others because I work by an accountant where I ‘raise’ people work-wise in the office, things like these, and there I have my favorite ones, girls to whom I teach my job and I see them growing up and proudly entering the workforce, to whom I give a lot of space and I think this is beautiful, and to some of them, of course, I get particularly attached because they’re more similar to me. So, I think you can be fulfilled also by doing something like this, absolutely. I feel this deeply, I think it is also very important. Sure, as a woman I’m still missing something, because I think that having a child is a wonderful experience and that, anyways, is worth to experience it especially because it is a miracle in my opinion! I consider it something that makes women so strong: to create a human being! And, at the same time, there’s also the fact of, as you were saying of your inheritance on this earth, a gap that I fill by saying: “These girls will remember me, they’ll say I taught them their job.” and my husband’s children will say, my name is Anna, but they call me ‘Inni’ because of an old game we would play speaking with the letter ‘I’ or the ‘O’, and the ‘I’ was better so I would become ‘Inni’, and we remember ‘Inni’ doing this and that… That’s why I tell them, for example when arguing over something: “One day you’ll remember me, because you’ll say I always did this…” For example, I hate when they cut bread into big slices: “Don’t do big slices!” So they’ll say: “Inni would always say not to do big slices!” and I find it very cute. These are all little things that somehow can still fill our gaps, for me at least it is like this.»

STELLA: «All of you gave a beautiful image of maternity and of the baby bump. When I got pregnant… Firstly, it went like this: My sister phoned me and told me… Actually, I phoned her and told her: “Hi, listen, I wanted to ask you”, my two nephews are like children for me, I raised them and she said: “I know, you want to tell me you’re pregnant” and I said: “No, I don’t! My tummy hurts” and she said: “That’s how it works!” and I said: “No, my tits are swollen, I’m about to get my period!” and she said: “But I dreamt it!” Compared to this, Egypt is nothing! I mean, she was losing her mind! “But I dreamt it!” So, I thought that, actually, she could be right. So, I went and bought the test. I didn’t even think about going to the Local Health authority, because only now I know I could and have some support… I went to the pharmacy and they asked me: “How many?”, “How much is one?”, “It’s 14 euros.”, “Then I’m taking one and it’ll be decisive!” There is absolutely no information about the Local Health Authority, about the different possibilities. Yet, I was already 32, not a young girl! So, I took one test: it was positive. Holy shit! Desired, not desired, decided, not decided? No idea. Alright! I’ll skip the part of when I went to the hospital, the way they treated me after I miscarried, and the doctor was talking about percentages. I was there losing a lot of blood, it was everywhere, the placenta was devastated, and the doctor told me: “Madame, stop crying, because it is statistically proved that 70% of women miscarry at their first pregnancy.” So, while I was in pain, he was telling me all those things… Okay, well, let’s skip this part! Then, at some point, my belly started growing. After lying a whole month on the sofa, I said: “If my baby’s meant to stay, they will, if they’re not meant to, they won’t. I don’t want to live it badly.” So, I got up. And my pregnancy kicked off, my baby decided to stay. I was getting tested… Then I started gaining weight, I gained 30 kilos! So, I got to 81 kilos. My sister would take pictures of me and send them to friends because I looked like a hippopotamus! And when I would go to the hospital, there were couples saying: “Oh, babe! What a beautiful thing!” “Wonderful!” I would have set them on fire! To moms, to dads… There was necessary all that love… For me that belly, nobody tells you that you’ll get stretch marks here, here, here, huge ones! Everyone looks at you like you’re… We all had the same green agenda! So, we all looked the same. I’m lucky I didn’t do this, but they make you drink one litre of brew. You get tortured! And you sit there with your full bladder while everybody feels like throwing up, feeling sick… I looked messy. But you must be happy! You have the belly, you’re pregnant, so: “it’s a wonderful thing!” You can’t say: “Fuck it! I’m sick of this enormous thing! I can’t even move” Also, I would get pins and needles here, so during the last three months, at 3 o’clock at night, I would wake up, with my 81 kilos, looking like this. It was July. I gave birth In September; I couldn’t do that anymore. But you cannot tell other women: “You know what? Are you for real? I mean, do you really like this…” Then I also got emotional, it was really beautiful, a whole lot of things… beautiful! But still, you cannot say: “For me it’s a no!” Does it always need to be full of love?»
TESTIMONY: «Well, it also depends on how your pregnancy goes. I’m the least…»
STELLA: «Wait, I did very good with it! You know, I gained 49 kilos… But you cannot say that it’s a pain in the… Am I exaggerating? That it is not that good! That after a while it’s annoying! You can’t say that to other women, because there’s all this love, there’s all this cuteness in hospitals: “It’s so beautiful!” I want to tell you this funny anecdote. At some point, I dropped a ticket. It was at month 6. I was in hospital. So I leaned forward to take it and I saw a girl’s huge feet two ‘pig’ feet like this, and I thought: “No! If I become like her, just kill me! It will never happen to me!” So, I picked up the ticket. Her feet were really repelling, she was wearing flip flops, because even if it is October nothing else will fit your ankles which stay swollen! Can we talk about it, please? So, I picked up the ticket thinking: “It will never happen to me!” Guess what? My feet gained 4 sizes! Nothing would fit me anymore! My sister would take pics of me because I looked like an animal, however you cannot say this because you should be happy. And what about breastfeeding? I would take my daughter, and everybody would go like: “Breastfeeding is wonderful, I mean, it’s… Gosh, how beautiful! I think it’s the most beautiful thing in the world!” Really? I take my child, and I stick her to… What the fuck? I turned around and I said: “Sorry, but…” to a girl at her third child, “Ergh… This… I mean, this is… Being killed is less painful! What is this?” And she said: “It’s normal, you’ll get a callus…” “A callus? On your tits?” “You’ll get a callus, don’t worry!” Once again: “But nobody ever told me that!” If so, I could have chosen. “A callus? On my tits?” And your nipples start bleeding! Really? So, there’s a Brazilian remedy, so I would go around with these walnuts that kept them dry but would also get stuck! Okay! Bellyband: yes, or no? Let’s move on… But, you see, not only people don’t talk about abortion, but people don’t even talk about the impossibility to say that that condition, maybe, is not always that beautiful even if the pregnancy goes well. Perhaps you also feel bad in that body, because it is not yours anymore. Not to mention that you stop existing, because people see you and say: “Hi! How are you?” and you think: “Is it necessary to touch it?”, you’ve got this belly that, at that point, everyone keeps touching but that body isn’t yours anymore so you can’t say: “I don’t like when people touch it…” so you meet people on the streets who go like “boom, boom, boom” Can we talk… I don’t know if you know this, about the belly hairs. You look at yourself and say… I told my sister: – “What are all these hairs?”, “It’s normal, it’s the hormones!” What about those who try to guess your child’s gender with a pendant? I didn’t want to know it. And I didn’t get many ultrasounds! I mean, there’s a whole world moving in there that cannot be recounted. Because, however, you also need to be nice, you necessarily need to be happy, you have to be happy. I am happy, I mean, my daughter is my Buddha. I thank the creation that sent her to me, because my daughter brightens my life. When I gave birth to her, after 24 hours of hell, during which, at some point, I begged God for mercy, for real, but it was an experience… I left that room… I wanted it to be a women thing, so I asked my partner if he wanted to stay there with me because, otherwise, I would have done it with my friends. Because this was something I felt. There I felt, and this is what I’d like other women to experience, because for me my daughter hasn’t been a point of arrival, she’s been an experience, a phase, I mean I felt that God is a woman. Believe me when I say this: God is a woman. Nobody can get this out of my mind. Sometimes I look at my daughter when she’s sleeping: “Gosh, I made her!” I mean, I made this person! And it was the curiosity to see what could come out from me and my partner. The thought that I didn’t want to be a mom did cross my mind too when we risked because she got sick, we risked a serious illness, so in the corridor of the hospital where I’ve been told: “Mrs, come with me” I went through the corridor on my knees, and I thought: “Never again!” I’m never going to be a mother again!” because that pain is… indescribable, inexpressible, so I’m on the side of who’s not a mother and I say yes, that thought crossed my mind too of not wanting to be a mother.»
TESTIMONY: «Of who’s not a mother?»
STELLA: «Yes. I didn’t want it as well. That desire had crossed my mind too, I said: “I would have chosen not to” If someone had told me: “You’ll become a mother, but you’ll need to experience this” then I would have said: “Never mind, don’t give me anything!” Concerning my daughter’s growth, since I never felt the instinct, I felt a strong love, but I also cried a lot and we haven’t slept for 3 years so much that from 81 kilos… During the anaesthesiological examination the doctor he said: he said: “Category: obese.” He called me obese? I’ve always been thin! “Obese”, alright. I mean, on my medical record it says: “obese”. Alright. So, I went from 81 to 49 kilos because that commitment made me suffer. For the first two years with my daughter, I’ve suffered because I felt tied down. I would see other people living life, going out, doing beautiful things, working, travelling, doing aperitifs, and I felt tied down! So, I felt obliged to stay home breastfeeding… Also, you’re like a cow, you do nothing but breastfeeding! You keep saying: “No, sorry, today I’m breastfeeding, I’m busy.” – But it’s wonderful! Also, my mother would give me bottled milk. Amazing! She would give me bottled milk.»
SARA: «I gave her bottled milk because I didn’t have breast milk.»
STELLA: «I had a lot of it! This is a whole other experience, because wherever you go you always smell like goat’s milk, basically you smell like a goat. As soon as you lean forward you say: “Sorry”, because you stain yourself with milk. I breastfed but I felt bad, because I would see other people living life and for me it was like a prison. That was a moment where… I had to learn. Learn to be, learn some things. My daughter taught me to be within things. When… I’ll conclude with this. When she was born, we didn’t know if she was a boy or a girl, we didn’t want to know, when she was born and I realized she’s a girl, we looked at each other and my first thought was: “Shit, her life will be much more complicated!” I swear, my first thought was: “Her life will be harder.” I immediately understood that for her life would have been harder. Instead, for a boy it wouldn’t. Later I learned to rely on other women, so, still today, since my partner and I believe in the tribe now, for example, I have the desire to adopt a child.I started desiring to adopt. I work at an hospital, and, at some point, my supervisor told me: “Stella, these are not your children.” And I don’t believe it. I am an educator; those kids are my children. So, sometimes, I say: “I need to save a little bit of myself for my daughter too” and what I’m trying to do is finding sisters for her, that I think is fundamental. When I wonder what I want to teach her, especially since she’s a girl, I think this. In a notebook I’ve written, as you did with the essay: “What do I want to pass on to my daughter? “Sisterhood”.»
FRANCESCA: «That corridor on your knees, full of pain, I think you would have gone through it even if it was, maybe, one of your sister’s children or Antonella’s 11-year-old daughter or one of mine. So, this is a sense of extended motherhood. Sometimes… You know that I really like you, however, sometimes, I hear you saying things that I heard not from my mother but from my grandmother! And I’m always very struck by this. My grandmother thought that a woman, coming into the world, would have been less lucky than a man and she would despair, and she despaired when my mother was born who’s the only woman among many men. Then my mother balanced it out by making four girls and two boys. but I think this is a bit antique and I want to be confident and to believe that times have really changed, and we should be convinced of this. Instead, I want to refer to something she said. I find extremely dangerous the fact that today people are more and more reticent to talk about abortion because an acquired right is not forever. I must say, maybe I’m a bit younger than you, even if I’m old too now, but I grew up in a situation between generations in which people became reticent to talk about abortion. We are forgetting what obtaining this right has meant and when I talk with my girls at school this really worries me. So much that I keep motivating them, empowering them and making them reflect as much as possible on the fact that acquired rights are not forever acquired and that the risk of losing a right is much higher than that of preserving it. Reflecting on abortion always makes us feel, at least us of this generation, sort of daughters of the generation which made us obtain this right, makes us feel embarrassed. Instead, perhaps, it would be worth reflecting on it a little more.»

ROSY: «Let’s lighten the mood. My situation is super normal. At least this is what I think it is. The only childhood memory I have is certainly the fact that at 5, now I’m almost 53, I decided I wanted to live alone. I mean, my decision was to live alone. With no husband, no children, even if coming from a normal family: a dad, a mom and a sister. So, my idea was living alone, and I fulfilled it 25 years later. So, the idea of a husband, of children, didn’t even cross my mind, I have never thought about it. That’s true, I was, as some said in other interviews… Yes, I’m an auntie. I’m a very happy auntie. The other day, my sister told me: “You’re a bit of a lone wolf, but fortunately I made children, so at least you have mine.” And I did enjoy them. Now they’ve grown up, but I can enjoy my co-workers’ children too, taking the playful side of the relationship with children. I am passionate about cinema, so I always take them to the cinema, I take them to the theater, we go on short trips, I travel a lot with them so I’m only taking the fun side of it. I’m not taking the responsibilities, the worries, the anxiety! So, I am able to enjoy this thing in a very healthy way, in the sense that I don’t particularly love children, I must say. I work in a girls’ environment, in an office, where I daily hear all my co-workers’ problems with their children. Some are younger, some are older… I define my generation: “Doormat and chauffeur parents” because they’re always available for everything. When I was 12 or 13, staying home alone wasn’t a problem. Nowadays, woe to whoever leaves a child alone! Now you need to drive and pick them up. If a show ends at two o’clock, you need to pick them up or organize carpools. Instead, when I would go to concerts in 1975, my father would tell me: “You go and come back alone”, so we would walk back from the arena. So, I can’t stand all these situations. Everyone tells me: “You’re lucky to be alone, you have no children nor problems” Nobody forced you to make them! Nobody forced you to get married. So I’m doing really good in this situation, I’ve never thought of having children and I’m happy this way. Also, I’m the supreme auntie, because all the other relatives have children, instead I am the auntie who, as my sister says: “You have nothing to do, so you go out with the kids and have fun” And for my nephews I am the auntie. Then they have an aunt and another aunt. But I’m the supreme auntie, because I’m the one who entertains them.»

GIADA: «I think I’ve always been scared, I start by saying I have no children, scared to have them, because I’m scared this society will take them away. In the past, it was war that would take them away. Now we live in a society that is just as violent. And at the same time, I’m not scared of experiencing pregnancy as someone else said, even if I received, I think, a basic family education. However, it has an impact, maybe we didn’t say this, when a mother continuously tells you: “Pregnancy is beautiful, breastfeeding is beautiful, I didn’t have problems, the birth was perfect, I had no lacerations…” Over time it becomes a sort of repulsion, as if you want to reject that normality with all your strength. Another aspect which led me to have no children is that I have never considered the opposite sex a means to procreate, which is something I heard from many women: “I’m looking for a man to get married and to have children” I’ve never thought that. And my last fear, and here I’ll end my speech, is the fact of being scared to put many hopes in my children, those children who necessarily must fill your life, who necessarily must accompany you until death, this thing has always scared me a bit, I don’t want, indeed, to give this burden to the next generation. These are, basically, my fears which led me to make this decision. And, luckily, I have never needed to choose, that is having to deal with an unwanted pregnancy and therefore having to resort to abortion. Probably, I wouldn’t have had an abortion despite all my fears, which I still have, certainly.»

MARINA: «I must say that I haven’t asked myself this question in so long, that is why I didn’t have children, and after Susi’s email I thought: “Yeah, maybe, who knows why?” “By chance”, I must say this is how my life went, not having them has never been a tragedy. I mean, that’s what happened because, probably, when I was younger my husband was unbearable, so I wasn’t interested, frankly, in having a child with that person. Then I’ve been alone for so long, then, with my new partner, I stopped thinking about it and we both didn’t think about it and, frankly, it hasn’t been a problem. Whereas, instead, this abortion thing really touches me and yes, it’s not talked about anymore. Maybe it touches me because it’s been part of my story, I mean I lived during those years the fight to get that right and so on. It is true that you don’t hear about that\Nor about other things too, but especially this among women… I don’t know, I don’t hang out much with women groups, but I seem to understand, since this problem came up, that it is true: we don’t hear talking about it anymore, and I’m wondering why. I can’t find an answer to this. Is it fear? Something we acquired so we stopped worrying about it since it has already been acquired? Maybe there are less women who have abortions? So maybe it’s not a problem anymore? Or maybe it is not as tragic as it was in the past, because when the abortion right was acquired, it was tragic entering the hospital and having an abortion. I mean, if you were not accompanied by other women, by someone who was brave enough, who would go there and fight, it was tragic. Maybe now, let’s say, it’s not like that anymore! Maybe. But I don’t know. I’d like to understand this, because we should really ask ourselves this.»
ELSA: «This last consideration on abortion has struck me, because it reminded me something of my youth. I haven’t had children. I remember that at some point in my life I wondered: “What if it happens?” and in that moment in my life I thought: “I’d be ready to have an abortion”, even if I had a small doubt within me. But I thought it could be something possible to experience, to not be afraid of, because I didn’t feel ready. I haven’t had children. I don’t know why, it just happened. Despite everything, I don’t feel like a ‘dead branch’. I feel I am a bud on that branch. It didn’t become fruit, but it has contributed. I’ve lived on other people’s maternity. I remember that, during childhood, I wouldn’t play the mom game. So, probably, it was my fate. I have always played sports or dangerous games. I studied to become a teacher, so, somehow, it had to do with children. Later, over the years, I completely changed. Instead of teaching, I decided that I wanted to cure children. So, I became a paediatric nurse, at first. I gave birth many times! I smelled childbirth. The smell of a child who’s being born. I dreamed of giving birth too, for many years I’ve seen lots of women screaming, crying, rejoicing… And I gradually started wondering: “Why a person without this instinct like me ended up doing this? Welcoming other people’s children, helping them breastfeed, smelling colostrum, explaining how important it was, hearing the cries, also feeling the refusal of women who no longer felt their femininity, because their men didn’t see their femininity anymore.” But I lived on this and I’m happy about it. Also, when, at some point, I asked myself: “What type of mother would have I been?” The answer arrived from my life, especially from my professional life, but also from my friendships, from my relations. I’m happy to be an aunt, I’m a godmother, my goddaughters chose me, because they wanted me as their godmother, and this filled me. Many children at the hospital, the healthy ones, the sick ones, have become my children too. Very often people would ask me: “How many children do you have?” “I have none” “That’s impossible! A woman like you who takes care of children this way, with this strong passion!” So, I thought: “It means I have this instinct!” Other people can see it, other people live on it and I’m happy about it. I admire each one of you. Those who adopted, those who made them… I have cured them, I’ve taken care of them. I’ve felt supportive as a woman and as a female.»
SUSI: «Hooray for the Lunàdigas!»

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